Sirlin podcast ep on MOBA ban/pick phase, MOBA design pitfalls

[JustinPierce]

It's not a feature you usually see in FPS games, but most FPS games have a pretty limited (or homogeneous) weapon selection so the problem doesn't really come up like it does in MOBAs.

Originally, once I had a large selection of weapons/equipment in AoT (20+), I was planning to use some sort of ban phase similar to what LoL/DOTA have -- basically a way for the community to act as an immune system to protect against overpowered loadouts. Over time I've started to reconsider. Recently Sirlin talked at length about the negatives of a ban/pick phase on his podcast, so I thought I'd share:

http://www.sirlin.net/posts/sirlin-on-game-design-ep6-character-bans

After they're done talking about the ban phase, they go into some other MOBA mechanics (last hitting, snowballing, etc). As a game designer, I love these sort of discussions.

[DrunkenJedi]

Listened to the first ten minutes.

I think they are too closed minded. Like they dismiss the pick/ban phase as a bandaid which is a phrase that has always felt like a big buzzword to me. Call something a bandaid and that's your argument, you don't have to really look at why it positively influences the game.

I play a lot of DOTA 2 and I play on a casual-level team in a small time league. Actually had a league game about 9 hours ago. The pick and ban phase is a vital part of the game for reasons they do touch upon but don't give enough credit, IMO. And they also say that it's there to handle the fact that the game has too many characters. Sorry but too many? U wot? The game has a lot but characters but that is a GOOD thing. Variety is the spice of life and I doubt my interest in the game would be the same without the wide selection of characters available - the meta would be so stale. You have 10 characters in each and every game meaning approx 1/10th of the entire pool is picked and 1/10th is banned meaning that 2/5ths of the pool has been picked/banned nearly half. If you take away characters from that pool then you WILL find stale gameplay, the whole point of MOBA games is to have an ever evolving meta based around new strategies with the vast pool of characters.

I'm not saying that picks and bans is the absolute best way to handle things but in the context of MOBAs it most certainly is. Also that guy says he's done with all MOBAs except for HOTS which basically rules him out from talking about MOBAs in any serious discussion.

[JustinPierce]

Yeah, they're definitely opinionated -- you just have to keep that in mind while listening to them, because I do think they make some good points. Later they do acknowledge the advantages of the ban/pick phase; their argument is basically that the negatives outweigh the advantages.